Tuesday, May 18, 2010

13 comments JoeChat: No Title Necessary

Before I get to the JoeChat for the day, I wanted to talk briefly about this. SportsCenter mocked Bengie Molina for being a slow baserunner and used the theme from "Chariots of Fire" as background music on Molina's slow motion run to home plate against the Marlins. Is it funny? Yes, it sort of is. I really would have thought nothing about it if Molina hadn't spoken out about it eloquently on his blog (he has a blog and he doesn't live in a basement? What???). After I read what Molina wrote, I did think that maybe ESPN was trying to humiliate him a little bit. He had a really good point with this:

In that Marlins game, which we won, Nate Schierholtz went three-for-three with his first home run of the season. Matt Cain pitched six innings of no-hit ball. And the one highlight ESPN shows of that game is me getting thrown out at home? And they're doing it just for laughs?

There were plenty of highlights to show, but they chose that one highlight of Molina running. I have to agree, it was a poor choice of highlight and I think ESPN got a little too focused on the entertainment aspect rather than the informational aspect of the game...which is something they do frequently.

Now his closing sentence:

All I can do is play the way I always have - with respect and professionalism. It's shame that ESPN, a once great network, won't have any idea what I'm talking about.

Ouch. It was a good blog post and though I do see the humor in the highlight, I can also see how Molina is a little annoyed the sum total of the game was seen as him being a slow runner and ESPN was mocking him for this. Of course from ESPN's perspective, it was only the Giants and the Marlins, who really cares about that game anyway?

Now onto the JoeChat for the day. I almost posted something on LeBron James just to not post the JoeChat every Tuesday, but we will have plenty of time to talk about bad journalism and LeBron James before he chooses his new (old) team. Today, Joe reveals he doesn't really know how to tell time and talks in circles, as usual.

JM: Congratulations to Dallas Braden for such a fantastic performance last Sunday. Now, maybe he can move on from the A-Rod incident and just concentrate on having a good career.

Congratulations Dallas Braden! You have finally gotten that monkey off your back from the pitcher's mound incident with Alex Rodriguez. It was such a distracting incident and caused you to lose so much focus, you threw a perfect game a few weeks after the incident.

Does Joe really think Braden was distracted or something by the A-Rod incident? If so, how did he throw a perfect game? More importantly, how the hell could throwing a perfect game help Dallas Braden move on from the A-Rod incident? I don't know if I see the correlation here. It seems like Braden had already moved on to me. I don't know how a pitcher could throw a perfect game and feel distracted at the same time...hungover, yes, but not distracted.

Travis (Houston)


The Astros may have a bad record but upside is are pitching has been great but wins dont come what should the Astros do?

Umm...what? Is this Joe Morgan pretending to be Travis from Houston? This sentence not make of sense.

JM: You have to have offense. Everyone can talk about how great pitching staffs are, but you have to score runs.

Does Joe really believe this? How many times have we heard him talk about how if a pitcher gives up 2 runs then "he didn't pitch well enough to win the game," even if his offense didn't score for him? The real Joe is not this rational. I always thought a pitcher was judged in Joe's eyes by how many runs his team scored for him.

The best teams can both pitch and score runs.

#1 analyst for baseball. Largest sports network. In the United States. Gets paid to analyze baseball. In your face America.

The best football teams can play defense and offense. Somebody give me some money to be an NFL analyst for a major sports network!

John (Nevada)


Joe, what (if anything) can the Cubs do to get things turned around in the NL Central???

JM: I've been watching the Cubs for the last 3-4 years and I always thought they were a good team.

Joe has been an analyst for ESPN as long as I can remember, and while the amount of alcohol I drank in college doesn't help my memory, my memory is still pretty good. I am pretty sure the Cubs have been a Major League Baseball team for over 3-4 years. So Joe has indicated here that he has been paying watching the Cubs for the last 3-4 years, which seems like a pretty short time for him to pay attention to a major league baseball team. Did he not pay attention to them before that?

(Jon Miller) "Tonight it is the Reds and the Cubs on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball. What are your thoughts on the Cubs' this season Joe?"

(Joe Morgan) "I don't know, I haven't been watching them."

(Jon Miller expecting this response) "Well the Cubs have been having a good year so far behind the pitching of Carlos Zambrano and the offense of Derrick Lee. The Cubs have been on a dive lately and are looking to bounce back against the Reds. We'll be back in a few minutes for the first pitch."

(Jon Miller talking to Joe Morgan) "You are a waste. I hope ESPN replaces you with Orel Hershiser a few years down the road."

(Joe Morgan) "Who is that?"

I would also like to take exception to Joe saying here he thought the Cubs were a good team. From Joe's ESPN chat last week in response to a question about the Cubs:

JM: I'm wondering why you're questioning the moves now, when what they've done the last three years hasn't worked...They've made some mistakes the last few years. Getting rid of some players who were important to the makeup of the team. I don't think they've made a lot of good decisions lately.

So yeah, ummm...when did he think they were a good team again? Before or after the same three years ago he has started watching them and thought they were a good team...or before or after the same three years when he also thought the moves they made haven't worked?

But things could change. Without Zambrano in the rotation, I don't think they'll be a good team. If he is in the rotation, he has to pitch up to his capabilities.

Yes, Carlos Zambrano has shown this year he is fully capable of winning 15-20 games by himself on the mound. His 7.45 ERA and 1.862 WHIP as a starter shows this fully. If he were in the rotation, the Cubs would have at least 10 more wins at this point.

Pete (NC)


Are you surprised by the Nationals being over .500? Can they keep this up?

JM: I think I'm pleasantly surprised.

So Joe is surprised by the Nationals start. He didn't expect them to be this good.

I thought they would be better.

Or he isn't surprised. He thought they would be better? Better than last year's record of 59-103 or better than 20-18 right now? There is only one right answer, because no one expected the Nationals to be better than 20-18 right now.

So Joe expected this.

I am surprised that they've played so well.

Or he is surprised. This is a whirlwind of emotions Joe is feeling right now over this question about the Nationals. I half-expect him to start pleading with everyone to get off his case about this and let him take a nap.

Part of the reason is Livan Hernandez has pitched great for them. He's a veteran and when a veteran pitches well, it gives the team a little more confidence. You know he can sustain it.

Oh no, I DON'T know Livan Hernandez can sustain a 1.46 ERA and a 1.034 WHIP. There is no way in hell he sustains this. None. I will write a 10,000 word essay about all the things I have been wrong about regarding Joe Morgan if Livan Hernandez sustains those numbers over the entire season...or even through the month of May.

RJ (Boston)


Mr. Morgan,Love your work, sir. Question... do you think we will ever see another speed renaissance, like we had in the 80's, with the Cardinals and Royals (and astroturf)? I miss those Herzog teams, terribly.

Kiss-ass.

JM: Those teams were very exciting to watch, because you knew every day someone could use their speed to win a game every day.

As opposed to teams these days that walk around the bases and never use speed in any fashion right? Do teams even steal bases now? Probably not, they just clog the bases. I would say any team that starts Tommy Herr, Vince Coleman, and Willie McGee, while having Jack Clark as the major home run threat on the team had better be using that speed to win games...because there isn't much power there.

We went through a spell waiting for 3 run homers to win a game, but they don't happen every day.

No Joe, 3-run home runs literally happen every single day in baseball games. Not in every single game, but there is probably a 3-run home run every night there is a baseball game.

Speed is there every day.

You know, unless a player with speed pulls a hamstring or has any other physical injury that prevents him from running as fast as he possibly can. Other than that, spot-on analysis from Joe.

Mike (Ohio)

So, was the biggest crime Griffey sleeping during the game or the 2 anonymous players going outside the clubhouse to the press?

JM: Or, if you feel like you have to go to the newspaper, at least be man enough to put your name on it. But that clubhouse in Seattle has been in disarray for the last couple of years.

This annoys me. What does he mean by that last sentence? I want to hear at least one example of this disarray in the Mariners clubhouse Joe speaks of. Here he goes again bringing up a topic and then not explaining what he means.

Ben (New Hampshire)


Were you three amazed the Yanks-Sox finished in about 3 hours on Sunday night?!

JM: To be honest with you, I did not time the game.

Maybe Joe didn't time the game, but he knows how to use a clock or a watch right? So the game began at 8pm and he has NO IDEA what time the game ended. He didn't have to time the game, just merely recall what time every player left the field, the game was over and he got to go home. This isn't that hard.

Joe in real life:

(Joe's wife) "Where the hell have you been? You dropped the girls off at soccer practice, what...2 hours ago?"

(Joe) "I don't know. I didn't time how long it has been since I dropped them off."

(Joe's wife) "But you dropped them off at 4pm, right? It is now 6pm, why did it take you 2 hours?"

(Joe) "I don't know if it did take me 2 hours, I didn't have a stopwatch or anything to see exactly how long it took."

(Joe's wife) "Where the hell have you been? You didn't spend 30 minutes at the bookstore again reading about the 1976 Reds did you?"

(Joe) "I don't know. I didn't time it."

(Joe's wife immediately files divorce papers)

I only look at the time when the pace of play is slow. If the game is a good game, I don't look at the time.

The score was 9-3 and all nine runs for the Red Sox were scored in the first four innings. It wasn't a good game.

I thought it was a pretty good game and it moved along well, especially early.

When all the runs were scored? That's when the game moved along well? I am not sure Joe even watched the game he was getting paid to analyze.

Nick (Atlanta)


Is there anyway Atlanta can make the playoffs?

It's going to be very difficult.

For the record, we are 30+ games into the season. At the time Joe wrote this, the division leader in the NL East was a whole 4.0 games ahead of them. They are now 3.5 games out of the division lead. It would not be difficult.

They've dug a deep hole for themselves not just in the standings, but mentally.


In the standings they are they were 4.0 games out of the division lead and 4.0 games out of the Wild Card when Joe wrote this. Now they are 3.5 games out of the division lead and 3.5 games out of the Wild Card lead. I have no idea what he means by mentally they have dug a hole for themselves. Apparently Joe Morgan thinks he is a psychologist now.

So far this year, their pitching has not been great.

The pitching is 13th in MLB in ERA and 9th in batting average against. The offense is 16th in runs, 24th in batting average and 19th in OPS. But yeah, I am sure it is the pitching that is the only big problem right now.

Todd (Philly)


Hi Joe - I tend to believe Ken Griffey Jr - but I was curious if you were ever put in a situation where something wrong was said about you - or what you said - what was your immediate reaction as a player/professional?

JM: I've been misquoted. There have been some people that said things about me that were incorrect as well.

I know what Joe means and I have been responsible for this. I did say something one time about Joe Morgan that was incorrect. I said, one time and one time only, that he was absolutely right about something. I regret giving him credit.

The Ken Griffey Jr. thing to me is just awful. I don't know the circumstances, but I do know over the course of 162 games that each and every player does something wrong or something that you can criticize. I don't know why that happened.

Because he was tired and wanted to take a nap. That's why it happened. Of course some could argue Griffey has been sleeping all of this year and last year based on his performance.

Jose (Brooklyn)


Joe, who do you think would be a better DH at this point, Jermaine Dye or Gary Sheffield? It looks like the Yankees might need a DH with Johnson on the DL.

Do you want the really old horse with two broken legs that may kick the other horses in the head to the point there is a horse fight (which by the way, I would pay to watch) or do you want the slightly aging horse that refuses to run a race if it doesn't get the most expensive grain available on the market and wants to get treated like one of your best race horses even though he isn't anymore.

I think Sheffield burned his bridges in New York, but I do think Jermaine Dye is a guy they can look at.

Then they would have to pay him $4 million+ to platoon at the DH position. I think Dye has something left in him, but not at that price.

Nick Johnson, I don't think he's played more than 100 games the last three years.

Nick Johnson played in 133 games last year. Before that, he was injured, but he did play in more than 100 games last year.

They should have looked at his record before they signed him.

They did. They saw he was going to DH, which would hopefully limit his injuries, and that he is an excellent hitter from the left side of the plate. That's all they needed to really know.

Frank (Coram, NY)


Do you think that The Mets can compete for at least the wild card?

JM: Yes, I think so. They have shown that on occasion their pitching staff can dominate hitters and that they can generate runs.

The Mets do have pretty good pitching but the offense is 17th in runs scored, 23rd in batting average, 21st in OBP, and 22nd in OPS. They are middle-of-the-pack to the lower-third of the pack in generating runs. They can compete for the Wild Card, but the Mets haven't shown too well they can generate runs, so I don't know exactly where Joe gets that idea from. I think he has been paying too much attention to the names in the batting order and just assumes the Mets are putting up a ton of runs.

Bob (Bronx)


Joe, who do you think is a better pitcher right now, Zack Greinke or Carlos Silva? Carlos already has 3 more wins and 4 fewer losses than Zack.

This is a JoeBait question.

JM: Zack has had some games where they just didn't score some runs for him. He hasn't pitched poorly, but they haven't scored runs for him. But like I said earlier, if they don't score runs, the pitching will suffer. Chicago scores more runs and Silva has been able to benefit from that.

Somebody tell that to Murray Chass.

There is no way this is Joe Morgan. This answer is too smart and well-thought out to be Joe Morgan. When did Joe learn that a pitcher's effectiveness also depends on how many runs the offense scores? This feels like information he would resist learning because it involves some sort of deeper thinking.

Bob (Bronx)


How tough was it to hit Blyleven's curveball?

Uh-oh, a question about Bert Blyleven. My head might explode since two of my favorite targets are linked into one chat question. Isn't this one of the signs of the Apocalypse?

JM: I didn't face him much, because he was in the American League.

Bert did play in the National League for three years with the Pirates while Joe was with the Reds and Astros. They played 12 times in 1980 when Joe was with the Astros, 12 times in 1979 when Joe was with the Reds, and 11 times in 1978. I couldn't find Joe's average during this time against Blyleven, which angered me. I searched and searched and came up empty.

I always felt that I could handle a pitcher's best pitch, because I'd look for it. I never dreaded facing Blyleven, but I could see where righthanded hitters would have a problem with him.

Plus, why would Joe have trouble with Blyleven? Joe is a Hall of Fame hitter and Bert Blyleven doesn't deserve to make the Hall of Fame because he doesn't have enough wins. Joe spits on the idea he can't hit Bert's curveball.

The best curveball that I had to face was from Sandy Koufax. His broke so hard and went straight down.

He is a Hall of Fame player so naturally his curveball was better. I don't remember how many wins Sandy Koufax had though, I am sure it was at least 300 wins, so he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

(I am not saying Sandy Koufax shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame, I am just commenting that he didn't get a chance to win as many games because his career was shorter and Bert Blyleven is often seen as not having won enough games to make the Hall of Fame...but he has more than Sandy Koufax. It's a joke.)

Great questions today. Look forward to talking to you next week.

I can't wait to find out next week when Joe started watching the Texas Rangers. I am guessing he hasn't gotten around to watching them quite yet.

13 comments:

KentAllard said...

I realize it's in poor taste to take the A-Rod side of an argument, but if I were a baseball player and I learned I could get into Dallas Braden's head by stepping on the mound during side changes, on days he pitched I'd stomp that sucker flat.

Bengoodfella said...

Yeah. It is not in poor taste according to Bert Blyleven, then it is gamesmanship. It's what scrappy players do. Honestly, if Braden is going to be so obvious with what sets him off, I would stomp on the mound just to throw him off.

How is this any different from sliding hard into second base or doing something else you know irritates the pitcher?

ivn said...

"I want to hear at least one example of this disarray in the Mariners clubhouse Joe speaks of."

a few years ago a player spoke anonymously to the SPI or the Seattle Times about how much everyone in the clubhouse hates Ichiro. then J.J. Putz called the player chickenshit and said that he should have been man enough to say it straight to Ichiro or have his name printed in the paper.

this was towards the end of the year the M's lost 100 games and nobody thought things could actually get worse.

Unknown said...

The molina highlight was quite funny. But I agree that it was cruel to make that the centerpiece of the highlight. He's been running slowly his entire career, not just on that one play.

Bengoodfella said...

Thanks Ivn, I love to hear clubhouse gossip. I would have preferred to hear it from Joe, but you filled in nicely.

I wonder why everyone hated Ichiro. Putz seems like a dick to me, so I would think he would be the guy they all hate.

Jacqlyn, I thought it was funny, but they have to talk about the game a little bit, right? I thought Molina's response made it seem worse because he wrote fairly well about how he felt.

your favourite sun said...

According to baseball-reference, Joe Morgan was 6 for 28 lifetime against Blyleven, with one home run, two walks and two strikeouts. That doesn't include being 0 for 4 with one K in the 1979 playoffs. Some of the at bats were in the American League, when Morgan was with Oakland and Blyleven with Cleveland.

Linkage

Morgan's numbers against Koufax are comparable, a little better actually: 7 for 29, two homers, six walks, seven strikeouts.

Unknown said...

The problem with the Molina video isn't the video itself. It amused me, and is something similar to ones I've seen a dozen times...you know, horse finishing last by 30 lengths, they play that song..blah blah. They didn't do it to embarrass him, cause everybody on the planet knows he's slow, it was just trying to be funny. (In fact, if they wanted to embarass him, it would have been from a game the Giants lost, and because Bengie was thrown out at home....and then made that highlight.)

The problem is that Sportscenter used to be a highlight show, and now it's....something else. I know most of you were kids, but back in the 80's Sportscenter showed a minute or two from every game, and talked the highlights from every game for a little bit. They would have done highlights from the Giants game, talked about the star players, and then as an extra tossed in the Bengie Molina out. Followed by Charlie Steiner saying something like "What were they THINKING!??"

To me Bengie is working with some faux outrage because he didn't like being shown getting thrown out. Giants fans and Marlins fans are the ones who should be outraged. The only highlight they got was that. If ESPN doesn't feel like even minimally covering the game for those fans, then don't cover it at all. To only have the Bengie highlight was insulting to them.

Bengoodfella said...

Martin, I think the video is funny, and it isn't in poor taste outside of the fact they didn't show any other highlights. I think Molina spoke well about it and the most relevant thing he said was about ESPN not understanding what being a professional is about. He did have some faux outrage, but I think it was good to make the point that ESPN only focused on his run.

I do remember when ESPN showed highlights of every game, but it has become more of an entertainment show than a sports highlight show, which may be out of necessity and the dumbing down of the network. You can get clips of games anywhere now, so they try to entertain and show clips at the same time.

I don't think they were "good old days" or anything, but SportsCenter used to be more about showing sports highlights and less about corporate selling (Coors Light Cold Hard Facts) and bringing in "experts" who have no television experience except as an athlete.

I agree, if you can't show anything about the game other than Molina's run, then don't show anything. I wouldn't have had a problem with it if they had shown highlights, but they didn't.

Of course, I don't even come close to following baseball on ESPN so it doesn't matter to me. I refuse to watch Baseball Tonight because it feels like a high school baseball show to me.

ivn said...

that was the first year of Ichiro's big contract and the combination of that and the fact that he's been the Mariners' best player and only draw for most of the past decade probably got to his head. he's a very serious guy as it is, and the fact that the Mariners fucking sucked that year probably made him come across as even more stuck up. plus there was the allegation that he was padding his hit total at the expense of the team--which I don't completely get, because he wasn't doing anything different from what he usually does.

in fact, one of the big talking points the Seattle media liked to beat into the ground last year was "Griffey's gotten Ichiro to come out of his shell! Ichiro's having fun now!"

Bengoodfella said...

Ivn, I vaguely remember that. I think what made me remember what you said was the accusation he was padding his stats at the expense of the team. I wondered how getting on base was a bad thing, it certainly doesn't seem bad to me.

I am sure Griffey is getting Ichiro to come out of his shell. It may be those naps in the clubhouse during games that does it. I love to hear clubhouse gossip, I can't help it.

Unknown said...

Yeah, ESPN now wants people to watch ESPNews for their highlights and news from the days games. I've tried that, but just don't think that it's well done. The anchors are usually bland and there is little energy in those broadcasts, almost as if they were bored to be there too.

Yeah, for baseball I go to the MLB Network now, which is usually top notch. (I still can't stand Barry Larkin) Baseball Tonight is unwatchable. Sad because I remember when it used to be great.

The NBA, blah. NBA Network sucks, so I feel sort of stuck with ESPN on that.

I don't like the analysts much on the NHL Network, but the highlights are good and plentiful, so that's nice.

The NFL Network....I'm not sure about. It seems equal to ESPN in terms of production quality and has the same "former players gabbing away" problem. The only football show I always like is The Blitz with Berman and Jackson. It's the only thing I like Berman on. They have their own ups and downs, but they usually stay away from "It's important to score more points if you want to win" kinda crap.

ivn said...

maybe Griffey taught Ichiro that naps make one less grouchy.

also: "The LeBron free-agency saga is far more interesting than playoffs." fuck you Tim Keown. am I crazy in thinking that ESPN is sinking to craven new lows--even for them--over this LeBron thing?

Bengoodfella said...

Martin, I watch ESPN for the NBA, I will watch for the NFL though it still annoys me, and I don't watch a lot of hockey. I don't get the NFL Network because my cable provider finds BBC America and pretty much any other channel better than NFL Network. I don't watch pregame shows that much because I feel like they are all filler. Berman and Jackson aren't bad on The Blitz, but that's the only point I can stomach Berman.

I will say, I am not sure you could pay me to watch Baseball Tonight anymore. I am MLB Network all the way.

Ivn, it is not just ESPN, though they are the leader of course, but the entire media is infatuated with where LeBron goes. ESPN has become more involved over the last many years with over-covering one certain story and this year it is the LeBron James free agency they are over-covering.

I saw that Tim Keown article. He's terrible.